sandpiperlily said:
[...] In English, some names can be either a first or last name and are therefore ambiguous (Taylor, Madison, etc), but most names are only ever one or the other.
That's not uncommon in the US (and increasingly so in recent years), but it's rare elsewhere in the English-speaking world. I know that to most people names are just a set of sounds, but to anyone who's sensitive to the significance of names the 'surname surname' formula is decidedly odd. Someone called Tyler Richardson seems not to have a name of his/her own: apparently he/she is descended from someone who tiled roofs, and from someone who was the son of Richard ... but what's his/her "own" name? ![LAST NAME first name [capitals = lastname?] (1)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw== "LAST NAME first name [capitals = lastname?] (1)")
But even with the double surname problem, I see no reason for an upper-case family name. As you mentioned, sandpiperlily (or should that be Lily Sandpiper? ), it's common practice in the US (and the UK) to insert a comma when names are reversed in administrative lists — which is about the only context in which reversal may be justified, for the purposes of alphabetical sorting by family name (though even that isn't necessary in a computer age where you can sort the second field as easily as the first).
asaisaio said:
[...] Is it correct if I write it as "DONOVAN John"?(because I make it in all caps, and the people can identify DONOVAN is the last name)
I would say it's neither correct nor advisable. As others have said, many people don't recognise the use of upper case for surnames: they might well think that Donovan is the given name and, if it was typed, that you'd accidentally hit the Caps Lock key!
Also, the reversal of names can be annoying and embarrassing. Working in France, I often see names reversed (see below), but some of the English-speaking victims aren't too happy about the result. Who wants to be called Prince John, or Black Maria (a police van!), or Little Joe? — and it's even worse for Dick Brown, not to mention a German named Hans Fuck (sic). Using upper case for the family name doesn't diminish the ridicule.
Egmont said:
I see family names in all capitals a lot, but almost always from people who are not native speakers of English. That practice seems especially common among native speakers of French, even when they are not writing in French.
Yes, I also see that a lot. They do it because there's total confusion over the 'normal' order of names in France. The correct order is 'forename - family name' (the French word for a given name corresponds to 'forename': coming before). But, dating from the Napoleonic era, I think, the 'administrator mindset' crept in: even today, teachers, who are mostly civil servants, require students to write 'family name - forename'. As a result, I get about half my mail addressed to Smith John and the other half to John Smith (well, I would if that were my name). Because of that confusion, the upper-case family name is the generally adopted workaround.
However, I have numerous colleagues (British, American, Australian, Irish, and others) who dislike the practice because they feel the writer is SHOUTING their family name. Others object because it deforms their perception of their identity: if you know yourself as a Smith, you don't feel that you're a SMITH — and I know a McNulty who is positively insulted when his name is written as MCNULTY. I even know French people who object to it, particularly those whose names contain a particle such as "de", which (correctly) is never capitalised: Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, for instance.
JulianStuart said:
Using caps for last/family name is an eminently sensible convention, just one that hasn't spread uniformly through the English-speaking world.
Sorry, JS, but (for various reasons I've given above) I can't agree that it's eminently sensible, at least not in cultures where 'given name - family name' is the normal order. That fact, in itself, should suffice; and if reversal is really necessary, then a comma should be enough.
Ws
![LAST NAME first name [capitals = lastname?] (2025)](data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAEAAAABCAQAAAC1HAwCAAAAC0lEQVR42mP8/h8AAvMB+NzmkbcAAAAASUVORK5CYII=)